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	<title>Comments on: Does Gay Marriage Threaten the Gospel?</title>
	<link>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Glen G. Scorgie</title>
		<link>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-942</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen G. Scorgie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-942</guid>
		<description>Jim has made a good case for a robust Christian challenge to the campaign to legalize gay marriage in California. I want to remind everyone that I never opposed this. What I did challenge was an excessive tone of fear and militancy on the part of Christians who engage in this challenge. And I also challenged those who use the "slippery slope" argument to suggest that any concessions to gays will inevitably lead to a loss of freedom to proclaim the Gospel in America. Slippery slope arguments always depend on a speculative trajectory. For example, some right-wing Christians argued in the early twentieth-century that giving women the right to vote would undermine the husband's authority and destroy the family. Today, some right-wing Christians argue that allowing gifted women to be ordained as pastors will lead inevitably to sanctioning the entire LGBT agenda in America. Nonsense.

I still believe that the cause of Christian morality is not well-served when its champions get shrill and hysterical. But I will admit that recently I've been disturbed by a couple of developments. The first is the tactics of some in the pro-gay campaign. The owner of a major hotel in San Diego evidently contributed a large personal sum of money to put the traditional marriage clause on the state-wide ballot. For this his business was picketed and his customers intimidated. He lost a lot of money because some gay-lesbian advocates did not like his stance. One wonders: How representative of their larger movement were those picketers, and does the larger gay campaign really respect free speech? What if one of the picketers themselves owned a business? Would they respect one of their own employee's right to support the traditional marriage side? It would appear not, and that's troubling.

The second development is a legal one. The other day  the courts in California ruled that principled physicians are no longer at liberty to decline "medical services" like artificial insemination to patients who are gay, lesbian or unmarried--regardless of the physician's personal, faith-based moral convictions on these matters of sexual morality. This development should certainly sober those who think nothing is at stake in this brewing controversy. When personal conscience is trampled by the state, the future does indeed look bleaker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim has made a good case for a robust Christian challenge to the campaign to legalize gay marriage in California. I want to remind everyone that I never opposed this. What I did challenge was an excessive tone of fear and militancy on the part of Christians who engage in this challenge. And I also challenged those who use the &#8220;slippery slope&#8221; argument to suggest that any concessions to gays will inevitably lead to a loss of freedom to proclaim the Gospel in America. Slippery slope arguments always depend on a speculative trajectory. For example, some right-wing Christians argued in the early twentieth-century that giving women the right to vote would undermine the husband&#8217;s authority and destroy the family. Today, some right-wing Christians argue that allowing gifted women to be ordained as pastors will lead inevitably to sanctioning the entire LGBT agenda in America. Nonsense.</p>
<p>I still believe that the cause of Christian morality is not well-served when its champions get shrill and hysterical. But I will admit that recently I&#8217;ve been disturbed by a couple of developments. The first is the tactics of some in the pro-gay campaign. The owner of a major hotel in San Diego evidently contributed a large personal sum of money to put the traditional marriage clause on the state-wide ballot. For this his business was picketed and his customers intimidated. He lost a lot of money because some gay-lesbian advocates did not like his stance. One wonders: How representative of their larger movement were those picketers, and does the larger gay campaign really respect free speech? What if one of the picketers themselves owned a business? Would they respect one of their own employee&#8217;s right to support the traditional marriage side? It would appear not, and that&#8217;s troubling.</p>
<p>The second development is a legal one. The other day  the courts in California ruled that principled physicians are no longer at liberty to decline &#8220;medical services&#8221; like artificial insemination to patients who are gay, lesbian or unmarried&#8211;regardless of the physician&#8217;s personal, faith-based moral convictions on these matters of sexual morality. This development should certainly sober those who think nothing is at stake in this brewing controversy. When personal conscience is trampled by the state, the future does indeed look bleaker.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Reed</title>
		<link>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-711</guid>
		<description>The gay marriage issue will affect much more than the gospel.  It will affect the moral foundation of our society.   For example, a law was passed in California (AB777) and put into force, January 1, 2008, which makes it unlawful to teach in our public schools that gay-transgender-lesbian, etc., is not acceptable.  In other words, to be gay-transgender-lesbian is good and should (and will) be taught to our children.  The gay-transgender-lesbian activists have sexualized our society in a way that has subverted parental rights and coarsened the discussion of sexuality in the public school setting.  The "sexualization" of our children in this manner is not what I send my kids to school to learn.  I should have a right to object on moral grounds.  However, laws such as these pull the moral rug out from under an unsuspecting public who generally do not know that these kinds of laws are being passed.  

Once laws are enacted they must be enforced.  Once gay-transgender-lesbian people become a protected class, they will have laws to protect anyone from speaking or acting contrary to these laws.  As of now, we may speak and preach openly against homosexuality.  This freedom will not last as the laws begin to show their teeth and as more and more of these laws are passed. 

I am not troubled by the militant imagery associated with the Protect Marriage Conference Call meetings that are now taking place all across the state of California.  Militant imagery is a biblical concept.  I think we pastors and Christian leaders are aware of the metaphorical nature of such language.  Let’s not forget that this language is in the Bible for a reason.  Many will sit idle while injustice spreads.  This is a battle for justice – moral justice.  This is a spiritual war that will be fought in the manner prescribed in the Bible.  But to fear such language is to weaken the sense of urgency and the reality we all will face if nothing is done.  The gay-transgender-lesbian activists will force their life-style upon our culture.  I view this possibility as a grievous case of moral injustice.  

There was mention of the preference toward “reasoned discourse” with our political opponents.  Reasoned discourse is a luxury that is very rare these days.  I would love see reasoned discourse in our local newspapers, media and legislature.  There is plenty of discourse, but it appears to be one-sided at this time.  I have participated at all of the Strategic Protect Marriage Conference Call meetings and have found the discourse to be very reasonable.  It is a mistake to label the discourse otherwise.

It was also said “that a friendly state has never been a prerequisite to the flourishing of the Gospel.”  I take it as my calling and duty to be involved in keeping the state friendly toward a Judeo-Christian ethical foundation.  I can’t sit back and allow moral injustice to prevail.  We have had a friendly state since its inception.  It would be a horrific waste of all the years of a positive heritage to allow the state to become unfriendly.

I have written and spoken on this topic which can be seen and heard on my website.
www.christianlifetools.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gay marriage issue will affect much more than the gospel.  It will affect the moral foundation of our society.   For example, a law was passed in California (AB777) and put into force, January 1, 2008, which makes it unlawful to teach in our public schools that gay-transgender-lesbian, etc., is not acceptable.  In other words, to be gay-transgender-lesbian is good and should (and will) be taught to our children.  The gay-transgender-lesbian activists have sexualized our society in a way that has subverted parental rights and coarsened the discussion of sexuality in the public school setting.  The &#8220;sexualization&#8221; of our children in this manner is not what I send my kids to school to learn.  I should have a right to object on moral grounds.  However, laws such as these pull the moral rug out from under an unsuspecting public who generally do not know that these kinds of laws are being passed.  </p>
<p>Once laws are enacted they must be enforced.  Once gay-transgender-lesbian people become a protected class, they will have laws to protect anyone from speaking or acting contrary to these laws.  As of now, we may speak and preach openly against homosexuality.  This freedom will not last as the laws begin to show their teeth and as more and more of these laws are passed. </p>
<p>I am not troubled by the militant imagery associated with the Protect Marriage Conference Call meetings that are now taking place all across the state of California.  Militant imagery is a biblical concept.  I think we pastors and Christian leaders are aware of the metaphorical nature of such language.  Let’s not forget that this language is in the Bible for a reason.  Many will sit idle while injustice spreads.  This is a battle for justice – moral justice.  This is a spiritual war that will be fought in the manner prescribed in the Bible.  But to fear such language is to weaken the sense of urgency and the reality we all will face if nothing is done.  The gay-transgender-lesbian activists will force their life-style upon our culture.  I view this possibility as a grievous case of moral injustice.  </p>
<p>There was mention of the preference toward “reasoned discourse” with our political opponents.  Reasoned discourse is a luxury that is very rare these days.  I would love see reasoned discourse in our local newspapers, media and legislature.  There is plenty of discourse, but it appears to be one-sided at this time.  I have participated at all of the Strategic Protect Marriage Conference Call meetings and have found the discourse to be very reasonable.  It is a mistake to label the discourse otherwise.</p>
<p>It was also said “that a friendly state has never been a prerequisite to the flourishing of the Gospel.”  I take it as my calling and duty to be involved in keeping the state friendly toward a Judeo-Christian ethical foundation.  I can’t sit back and allow moral injustice to prevail.  We have had a friendly state since its inception.  It would be a horrific waste of all the years of a positive heritage to allow the state to become unfriendly.</p>
<p>I have written and spoken on this topic which can be seen and heard on my website.<br />
<a href="http://www.christianlifetools.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.christianlifetools.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill Steinwedell</title>
		<link>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Steinwedell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 06:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-700</guid>
		<description>I have been in training with experienced lawyers who advise denominations to take care of even denouncing the gay life style from the pulpit because it is hate speech.  So our freedom of speech and of religious convictions is truly in jeopardy in California.

I believe this vote is essential to our constituency in the State of California.  For evil to flourish, good people only have to be passive (a poor quote, but you get the point).  

As far as many churches are concerned, evangelical ones included, leaders should leave the focus off the homosexuals and focus on getting their own congregations off pornography, having strong marriages and families instead of the high divorce rate we see.  In doing so, the leaders as well as the congregations would certainly be humbled and experience God's grace in deliverance from their own sin and struggles, that there would empathy and mercy, and compassion for others, like homosexuals who also sin and struggle. Both require the same blood for redemption and freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been in training with experienced lawyers who advise denominations to take care of even denouncing the gay life style from the pulpit because it is hate speech.  So our freedom of speech and of religious convictions is truly in jeopardy in California.</p>
<p>I believe this vote is essential to our constituency in the State of California.  For evil to flourish, good people only have to be passive (a poor quote, but you get the point).  </p>
<p>As far as many churches are concerned, evangelical ones included, leaders should leave the focus off the homosexuals and focus on getting their own congregations off pornography, having strong marriages and families instead of the high divorce rate we see.  In doing so, the leaders as well as the congregations would certainly be humbled and experience God&#8217;s grace in deliverance from their own sin and struggles, that there would empathy and mercy, and compassion for others, like homosexuals who also sin and struggle. Both require the same blood for redemption and freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen G. Scorgie</title>
		<link>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen G. Scorgie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-540</guid>
		<description>Don, I'm a Canadian and read the Canadian news regularly. Canadian church leaders are not restricted from speaking against gay marriage. There are a handful who have run afoul of the law on this matter, and been fined, but in every case so far their remarks from the pulpit and in the press have been outrageous and completely inappropriate. The remarks I've read have been hateful and vindictive. Frankly, it's too bad the church board members didn't have the courage and discernment to step in before the government did. There may come a day when freedom to proclaim the Gospel is restricted in Canada, but from what I'm reading from the Canadian press (including Christian newspapers) it hasn't happened yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, I&#8217;m a Canadian and read the Canadian news regularly. Canadian church leaders are not restricted from speaking against gay marriage. There are a handful who have run afoul of the law on this matter, and been fined, but in every case so far their remarks from the pulpit and in the press have been outrageous and completely inappropriate. The remarks I&#8217;ve read have been hateful and vindictive. Frankly, it&#8217;s too bad the church board members didn&#8217;t have the courage and discernment to step in before the government did. There may come a day when freedom to proclaim the Gospel is restricted in Canada, but from what I&#8217;m reading from the Canadian press (including Christian newspapers) it hasn&#8217;t happened yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Lowe</title>
		<link>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://glenscorgie.com/2008/07/19/does-gay-marriage-threaten-the-gospel/#comment-481</guid>
		<description>Professor Scorgie,

I have not read the invitation, but perhaps what is meant by "threatening the proclamation of the gospel" is that they believe the law will lead to church leaders being restricted from speaking against gay marriage.  I read an article that this is happening in Canada.

http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/06/09/112825/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Scorgie,</p>
<p>I have not read the invitation, but perhaps what is meant by &#8220;threatening the proclamation of the gospel&#8221; is that they believe the law will lead to church leaders being restricted from speaking against gay marriage.  I read an article that this is happening in Canada.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/06/09/112825/" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/06/09/112825/</a></p>
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